Episode #429: Data Doesn’t Lie: What Real Gunfights Actually Look Like - with John Hearn

Mar 25, 2026

Today's Featured Sponsor:  Werkz holsters

In this episode, Rich Brown sits down with John Hearn of Two Pillars Training to break down what the data actually tells us about defensive gunfights—and how most training completely misses the mark.

John has built a reputation for digging into real-world incidents, analyzing patterns, and applying that information to how we should actually train. From distances and timing to decision-making under pressure, this conversation challenges assumptions and replaces them with reality.

They dive into what the numbers reveal about how fights really unfold, where traditional training falls short, and how armed citizens can better prepare for the moments that matter most.

If you’re serious about training with purpose—not just going through the motions—this episode will change how you think about practice.

In 2021, John founded Two Pillars Training and began to offer unique curriculum focusing on decision making while shooting in addition to classic skills with pistol and carbine. Besides hands-on shooting classes, John has presentations focusing on the data side of the self-defense world. His interests include human performance under life and death stress, historic gunfights, crime data, and criminal typologies.

 

John has a Master’s degree in criminal justice with a concentration in Research Methods. He has instructor credentials from the FBI, FLETC, NRA-LEAD, Rangemaster, CSAT, Centrifuge Training, Tactical Anatomy Systems, Kentucky National Guard, and many others.

 

Finally, John is a Life Member of the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation.

John Hearne's Webstie:

https://twopillarstraining.com/